<pie_>
the oither day i was trying to run a vnc server against an X11 over the network (didnt even know you could to that till i saw it somewhere or tried, i just never thought about it) and it would fail until i found there was a flag to disable shared memory mode and have it use the network
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<qyliss>
pie_: puck has some interesting ideas around e.g. a network-transparent Wayland compositor that you might find it interesting to talk to her about
<qyliss>
Wondering if maybe at some point I'll RIIR usbipd
<qyliss>
I'll want it to have per-(device,client) authentication
<qyliss>
Qubes has one in Python but it looks fairly specific to qrexec
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<V>
pie_, qyliss: there is already a network transparent Wayland compositor
<V>
It's called waypipe
<qyliss>
There is also Waypipe
<qyliss>
I've heard it doesn't work great though?
<V>
I've never tried it
<qyliss>
I think puck said that to me
<V>
And apparently you haven't either
<V>
Network transparency is a myth, anyway
<V>
It's unusable with X11 nowadays
<V>
People use VNC instead for a reason
<qyliss>
agree
<puck>
well yeah, spectrum started with xpra
<qyliss>
and docker!
<qyliss>
those were the days
<V>
Xpra sucks
<puck>
yes but also, there's no real alternative
<V>
...Xephyr?
<puck>
no
<V>
???
<puck>
xephyr doesn't do rootless
<V>
Yes it does
<puck>
oh, huh
<V>
I used Xephyr for all sorts of sandboxing
<V>
Way before any of this was a thing
<puck>
wait no? xephyr just opens an x window that runs its own whole X thing, right?
<V>
Yes
<puck>
yes that's not good
<V>
It's an X client
<puck>
xpra just opens one window per window
<puck>
so it looks like native windows
<puck>
instead of just another VNC
<V>
Xpra also sucks
<puck>
yes, but there's no alternative
<puck>
or well, there's one, xtogo, which also sucks
<puck>
err, x2go
<puck>
V: i once hacked a qt qpa that basically rendered into in-memory buffers, and then transmitted the changes losslessly to a client. it worked really well for how shitty it was and showed what /could/ be possible with better integration
<puck>
at one point i even partially transferred over "render commands" -- so if qt said "please render button here" it'd ask the client to render a button, and then rendered it into the buffer, so it looked native to the client, not the server
<V>
Mmmmm
<V>
That's nice
<puck>
V: what i would like to have in a "wayland network-transparent proxy" is not just "run program, proxy it" but also multi-client support (so multiple people can view/interact with the windows), suspend support (so you can just criu the entire thing and move it to another machine), and graceful degradation (e.g. if you're on the same machine, you can just as well set up a shm buffer again)
<puck>
of course it'll never be fully transparent but it'll be closer to "optimal"
<V>
My Little Thin Client: Network Transparency is Optimal
<puck>
:p
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