qyliss changed the topic of #spectrum to: A compartmentalized operating system | https://spectrum-os.org/ | Logs: https://logs.spectrum-os.org/spectrum/
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<Scrblue[m]> So how serious are y'all about getting this to work on Power9? I'm thinking about buying either a Talos II or that one RISC-V dev board to play around with at some point, but I wouldn't know where to begin on porting stuff to either
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<qyliss> Scrblue[m]: I would love to have Spectrum support POWER9, but doing so would require support to be added to rust-vmm, which I lack the skills to do
<qyliss> If that was taken care of, I'd try as hard as I could to make it work
<puck> the RISC-V boards currently available don't support virtualisation at all, i believe..
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<Scrblue[m]> Damn on both counts. It's something I'll take a look at when one of my contracts ends, but my qualifications are effectively "code monkey" and "nerd", so I don't expect to even begin to understand what's going on. But secure virtualization sounds like a fun enough area to start specializing in
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<Scrblue[m]> Regardless, I guess my first step is saving a ton of money
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<qyliss> I'm about to invest in some hardware but I think it'll probably end up being aarch64
<samueldr> qyliss: don't hesitate to ask, even though I'm not sure if I'd really be any help :)
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<Scrblue[m]> I have an aarch64 phone that runs Linux, but it's way too slow for this project I'd assume
<qyliss> your bigger problem is probably going to be that lots of that sort of hardware has virtualisation extensions disabled
<Scrblue[m]> Are there any real ARM desktops/servers?
<qyliss> oh yeah
<qyliss> definitely servers
<qyliss> some friends of mine have one of these: https://store.avantek.co.uk/ampere-emag-64bit-arm-workstation.html
<Scrblue[m]> Yeah if I had $5k to drop right now, I'd definitely be getting a Talos
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<puck> the raspi 4 has working kvm, i believe
<qyliss> I'd get a Talos if I could, but if I can't run VMs on it it's not very useful to me
<puck> the talos has fully working kvm, both hypervisor and problem state; someone even ran mac os 10.3 in it :p
<multi> the pi 4 does indeed have working kvm
<puck> tho eah. porting the stuff wolud be a bit of work
<qyliss> yeah, you can even nest kvm pretty much endlessly on power9
<multi> i have one on my desk running as a hypervisor
<qyliss> but it's not helpful without a rust-vmm port
<puck> i guess i could try giving the cloud thing they run a try
<Scrblue[m]> If I end up buying one, I could probably give some of y'all access
<puck> though that probably would happen after i get $project up far enough that it boots in a VM
<Scrblue[m]> But that'd be months out at best
<qyliss> puck: if you wanted to, there's a chance I'd be able to get you some credits for that
<qyliss> but IIRC it starts at $5/month so probably not worth it
<qyliss> maybe I should just have a go at it
<qyliss> I don't think I'd be able to do it, but I've never actually _tried_
<qyliss> and sometimes I just need a break and to work on something I've never tried before
<puck> heh
<puck> the biggest thing is probably getting pci/virtio hooked up?
<qyliss> well just getting it to boot with a serial console would be a big milestone
<puck> right, crosvm/whatever basically don't emulate anything "legacy"
<qyliss> yeah, except serial
<puck> yeah, that's a 16550, isn't it, lol
<qyliss> but you could get to the point where the kernel panics because it doesn't have a rootfs
<qyliss> without needing anything but serial
<puck> good point
<puck> hrm, i think the aarch64 things actually use virtio-mmio, instead of pci
<puck> so there's not even a PCI bus
<puck> (the mmio stuff is just referenced in the device tree, so)
<puck> oh actually, i was looking at cloud-hypervisor, and they removed that again, lol
<qyliss> fwiw at this point I think we'll likely end up with more cloud-hypervisor code than crosvm
<puck> yeah
<qyliss> I'm expecting I'll just port virtio-wayland to c-h, rather than porting loads of c-h to crosvm
<Scrblue[m]> Rust is fun though :(
<qyliss> all the software we're talking about here is Rust
<Scrblue[m]> Oh rad
<Scrblue[m]> Wasn't familiar with cloud-hypervisor
<qyliss> it's a crosvm ~fork
<qyliss> there's also firecracker, but that's less relevant to us
<Scrblue[m]> Well I'm down to learn anything to help :)
<qyliss> :)
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<qyliss> puck: huh, IBM cloud also does POWER
<qyliss> makes sense lol
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<qyliss> not cheap though wow
<qyliss> but they do a 30-day $200 credit so would be worth using if somebody was spending some actual time on it
<samueldr> (way late in the discussion) puck most consumer~ish SBCs have kvm working
<samueldr> which is great
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<samueldr> most, probably all for what it matters, qualcomm phone hardware has kvm disabled by the firmware too early to do anything about it without working for Qualcomm
<samueldr> (might be changing soon with new features coming to android)
<samueldr> IIRC my mediatek phones have the /dev/kvm node available
<samueldr> and the only "real" workstation (workstation first) I know of is https://www.solid-run.com/arm-servers-networking-platforms/honeycomb-workstation/
<samueldr> the other workstation linked beforehand is server hardware shoved into an upright chassis, for what it's worth, costly enough to limit adoption
<samueldr> hmph, it looks like I left one of the mediatek phones in a bad state, and the other I see there's no /dev/kvm node...
<MichaelRaskin> Cosmo is MediaTek and no /dev/kvm at least with default kernel
<samueldr> yeah, I don't know why I thought it might be
<MichaelRaskin> I would not be surprised if with a proper kernel build it would work, though
<qyliss> MichaelRaskin: zgrep ^CONFIG_KVM= /proc/config.gz
<MichaelRaskin> CONFIG_VIRTUALIZATION is not set
<qyliss> ahh
<samueldr> yeah, same here, but I'm not really able to play with the options right now, deep into something else, but probably will at some point since it'd be nice to know
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