qyliss changed the topic of #spectrum to: A compartmentalized operating system | https://spectrum-os.org/ | Logs: https://logs.spectrum-os.org/spectrum/
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<qyliss> Irenes[m]: those, and the links at the bottom of the root
<qyliss> Okay, let's do a stream tonight
<qyliss> Everybody lmk when they're available
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<hyperfekt> qyliss: anytime.
<qyliss> nice :)
<qyliss> let's have a provisional start time of 18:30 UTC
<qyliss> if that doesn't work for anybody we can adjust
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<qyliss> Okay, stream will start in roughly half an hour. Get an rtmp client ready because I still didn't make a web page.
<qyliss> I will be coming to you in both ears this time, though, rather than just the left one
<cole-h> The technology is finally there!
<qyliss> I know! What an age we live in.
<colemickens> :/ I had a right-ear-only stream I was really hoping to multitask.
<qyliss> one year I'll add an April Fools feature to Spectrum where you can seperately manage access to left and right ear
<qyliss> I'm also upgrading wf-recorder so it doesn't crash at one hour eleven minutes
<qyliss> going all out hree
<cole-h> 😱
<MichaelRaskin> Add to The List: setup Nginx config and webpage for RTMP-to-HTML5 proxy
<qyliss> First on The List is to publish The List
<MichaelRaskin> Nope
<qyliss> That was what I meant to do when I did all those website updates the other day
<MichaelRaskin> Because publishing The List requires you
<qyliss> So does that
<MichaelRaskin> Actually I think no
<qyliss> It also requires spacekookie, whose rtmp server I'm using
<MichaelRaskin> one can setup Nginx somewhere else and just proxy and recode
<qyliss> delay would suck
<MichaelRaskin> It is probably still below how long one types a sentence.
<MichaelRaskin> I mean, it would suck for two-way voice
<qyliss> stream lag is really annoying even one way
<qyliss> It's why I don't even watch the office hours
<qyliss> (live)
<MichaelRaskin> Oh, you are talking youtube stream lag
<MichaelRaskin> They buffer like 30s
<qyliss> There's already a seven second lag on my streams
<MichaelRaskin> Hm, that does put them above one sentence on IRC.
<MichaelRaskin> (so maybe +2s is not threshold-crossing)
<Shell> given there's a v small amount of you, would it be worth just doing a jisti instead?
<Shell> jitsi*
<qyliss> then I'd have to figure out screen sharing
<Shell> oh, yeah
<qyliss> :)
<Shell> I'm fairly sure the xdg-desktop-portal implementation for wlroots does that now
<qyliss> I'm not gonna redo the setup in the next 18 minutes, anyway :P
<Shell> yeah
<colemickens> eh, it's still a WIP afaict
<qyliss> Last time we had 11 viewers, which is probably too much for jitsi
<Shell> ah, true
<MichaelRaskin> Fine, if half is muted and all are no-cam
<qyliss> We could try BBB next time
<qyliss> I have more faith in it than Jitsi
<cole-h> Jitsi is busted for me :x I don't get audio for some reason (probably a misconfiguration)
<MichaelRaskin> Jitsi with only one video input is not _that_ different load-profile-wise
<colemickens> :( I've had amazingly good luck with Jitsi across every type of person in my life, first shot every time too.
<qyliss> Jitsi is decent, if everybody is using Chromium and you don't use meet.jit.si
<colemickens> I wish it was a more universal experience :(
<qyliss> But you have to enforce those two things
<cole-h> colemickens: It works fine for you on Firefox?
<qyliss> Firefox degrades quality for everyone else on the call
<MichaelRaskin> I used Jit.si with Firefox and it was fine
<cole-h> Hm. Then it's seeming more and more likely that it's a misconfiguration on my end.
<Shell> [large-ish group I'm involved with] has had problems with jitsi + varying OS/browser/app configurations, unfortunately, it's true
<MichaelRaskin> Ah yes, _large_ number of video inputs is a different and more fragile story
<colemickens> cole-h: yup! Firefox Nightly anyway, I know some improvements that are webrtc related are coming or are in nightly
<cole-h> Nightly here too... definitely misconfiguration then
<colemickens> so far my audio issues have always been "oh right I muted it in PA or disabled the mic entirely in the sound card config in PA" :P
<MichaelRaskin> Having long-lived PA instances, basic mistake
<MichaelRaskin> I guess they are even allowed to store stuff in $HOME across reboots
<hyperfekt> tempting to do the graham but for home directory
<MichaelRaskin> Here you are supposed to run your PA in a they it doesn't even see your home directory exists
<MichaelRaskin> I am not sure, might be that Graham does erase the top level of $HOME
<puck> <qyliss> We could try BBB next time <- if you want to give it a try i can get you access
<puck> to one
<colemickens> hyperfekt: I think I'd want a strategy where it snapshotted and then reset so that I could learn from mistakes for a while first.
<hyperfekt> colemickens: that's a good idea. will do this when bcachefs finally gets snapshots
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<qyliss> puck: there's a public one I have my eyes on
<qyliss> just getting set up now
<puck> mm
<qyliss> hyperfekt: I have a read-only home directory
<puck> reasonable, i'm hosting one for my dad etc etc, so it's going unused most of the time
<hyperfekt> qyliss: how much software does it break?
<qyliss> not all that much
<qyliss> most stuff implements xdg base dirs
<MichaelRaskin> Well, you mentioned you run ~ 5 programs…
<MichaelRaskin> There is not much software to break, total
<hyperfekt> okay so your xdg base dirs get spammed instead :/
<qyliss> hyperfekt: XDG_CONFIG_HOME is in the nix store
<qyliss> hyperfekt: and XDG_DATA_HOME is also read-only
<hyperfekt> qyliss: nice.
<colemickens> nice
<qyliss> I manually create entries as required with a NixOS module
<cole-h> What does "create entries as required" entail?
<cole-h> Just dropping a Nix-managed file where a certain program expects?
<MichaelRaskin> How many symlinks to writeable storage you need?
<qyliss> two or three I think
<qyliss> update: my displayport cable appears to be having issues
<qyliss> cole-h: example: home.qyliss.dirs."state/dino" = {};
<qyliss> that creates /home/state/dino on activation
<cole-h> Which is writable by dino? Or do you still have to force the application to look there? (Sorry, this isn't really spectrum-related :P)
<qyliss> /home/state is XDG_DATA_HOME
<cole-h> Oh, got it
<qyliss> All in https://git.qyliss.net/nixlib/ if you want to poke around
<qyliss> Although I have about 50 unpushed commits atm
<cole-h> Thanks :)
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* tazjin excorcises qyliss' displayport cable
<qyliss> I have a new one now
<qyliss> Stream might even be up
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<qyliss> Same URL as last time
<qyliss> Which I think is rtmp://hyperion.kookie.space:11011/alyssa.tv
<cole-h> Yep
<qyliss> What do you see?
<cole-h> GNU Emacs
<qyliss> lovely
<cole-h> And 158% volume
<qyliss> Oh no that's 58% battery
<qyliss> With an up arrow to indicate charging
<cole-h> Oh, I see. My eyes have failed me
<qyliss> cole-h: can you hear me?
<cole-h> Yep
<tazjin> works for me, audio is one-sided again tho, which is fine!
<klltkr> Yeah
<cole-h> I thought you promised not-mono
<hyperfekt> oh my left ear is getting treated this time :D
<cole-h> Heh
<cole-h> Or rather not-requiring-mono-mode
<qyliss> Am I mono now?
<cole-h> It has not fixed that :)
<cole-h> 26
<hyperfekt> twenty πŸ‘ six πŸ‘
<hyperfekt> ugh goddamn immutability <.<
<cole-h> 26 >:(
<cole-h> qyliss: What is that thing in the top-middle of your bar?
<lukegb> Nice wallpaper
<cole-h> Oh, I thought it was like an app or something haha
<hyperfekt> next alyssa.is progress report is going to be 2000 words about fixing mono streaming
<lukegb> Ooooh
<cole-h> hyperfekt: πŸ‘€
<lukegb> "an exercise to the watcher"
<cole-h> = af toggle "lavfi=[pan=1c|c0=0.5*c0+0.5*c1]" ; show-text "Audio mix set to Mono"
<lukegb> I'm watching this in OBS because it's the only thing I had installed with ffmpeg linked in
<cole-h> That's the command
<lukegb> But that has a "make this mono" checkbox
<tazjin> the boring version of that is VLC -> rightclick -> Audio mode -> Mono :p
<hyperfekt> i figure this was like 5 times the work of actually packaging crosvm :'D
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<tazjin> can you post that URL here?
<lukegb> would it be better to fetch the current version data from https://omahaproxy.appspot.com instead?
<lukegb> that should have it as a CSV, if I remember correctly
<lukegb> ahhhh
<hyperfekt> what's the paladin part? the same repo has buildspecs for 81 somewhere else
<lukegb> I'm on Chrome stable on a Pixelbook and get, err, 80.0.3987.162, CrOS version 12739.111.0
<hyperfekt> they're not the ones we're looking for though :/
<hyperfekt> i think we want 12871.76.0 right now, right?
<hyperfekt> ooh.
<hyperfekt> it's in there.
<hyperfekt> so maybe all we have to do is switch from paladin to full and that'll do it?
<klltkr> Nae bad
<cole-h> Quite well, thanks :) Doing classwork at the moment... How about you?
<hyperfekt> just slowly coming out of a depressive episode 😬
<cole-h> Sounds just like me on every project I work on :P
<cole-h> hyperfekt: Hope you're holding up well
<klltkr> hyperfekt, hope you feel better
<hyperfekt> thanks c:
<cole-h> "L25000" πŸ‘€
<cole-h> Pfft, being efficient
<hyperfekt> "how does this work at all" i love when i get to this point
<hyperfekt> with my own code
<cole-h> Time to take a nap?
<cole-h> :^)
<hyperfekt> i wonder if the processes are less terrible if you work for google
<hyperfekt> something makes me think they might not
<qyliss> there's probably at least documentation :P
* cole-h looks at t*zjin πŸ‘€
* tazjin stares into the distance
<cole-h> Haha
<hyperfekt> we're getting into the territory of time where i'm wondering if you're not actually accidentally building the thing
<cole-h> "I would know if I was because you wouldn't be able to watch the stream if I was"
<hyperfekt> not doubting your expertise just out of things to imagine that it could be doing
<qyliss> who knows what on Google's end
<qyliss> maybe they're building it :P
<cole-h> Time to strace
<cole-h> "Oh crap, we're gonna get killed... quick finish up!"
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<cole-h> I only learned about `git worktrees` recently... they're so nice
<hyperfekt> okay magit is a little bit sexy, with that staging by select
<cole-h> magit is why I switched to Emacs :P But I do use evil because I'm still a heathen
<tazjin> it never occured to me that magic => magit, and the pronounciation should follow
<cole-h> Were you thinking "mah-git"?
<tazjin> cole-h: yes, I've been calling it that for many years
<cole-h> Hahaha
<tazjin> also afaict most people at the Emacs London meetup (back in the olden days, when we could go outside) call it that, too
* Cynthia is highly confused by what's going on
<tazjin> Cynthia: we're responding to qyliss talking on the stream
<cole-h> tazjin: Time to re-educate them next time you see the light of day
<Cynthia> I am watching it
<leah2> :)
* Cynthia nods
<Cynthia> this is almost a bit scary because I cloned chromiumos sources today lol
<hyperfekt> i really don't need credit for clicking through a few directories and hitting ctrl-f
<hyperfekt> :'D
<Cynthia> just messing around atm, but I will ask if I need help :)
<Cynthia> I submitted an extremely tiny patch to chromium (not chromiumos) that got merged today, and I got a bit curious about the internals of chromium and chromiumos
<Cynthia> this editor/ide is quite fancy/complicated to understand for someone who has not used it :P
<leah2> Cynthia: learn u some emacs :3
<Cynthia> nooo
<tazjin> leah2++
<Irenes[m]> wooo! I'm here and watching
<tazjin> \o/
<Irenes[m]> glad to be here :)
<cole-h> /o/
<cole-h> \o\
<Irenes[m]> re: are the processes for getting stuff into ChromiumOS easier if you work for Google? yes they are. it's all about being able to ping the tech lead and make sure they're paying attention.
<Irenes[m]> it's unfair and bad
* Cynthia pings tazjin
<cole-h> lol
<hyperfekt> that reminds me i need to build the spot instance exploiter... i have so many projects and get so little done
<Cynthia> sorry sort of zoned out, is uhura a build machine?
<cole-h> Yep
<cole-h> A beefy one, apparently
<Cynthia> how beefy? *imagines dual EPYC 7742*
<leah2> EPYC 7401P i think
<cole-h> lol
<cole-h> What if you add that 1 dbus file to the other modemmanager?
<cole-h> Understandably
<cole-h> Oof
<hyperfekt> i tried to get git status async in fish but it's either buggy or i don't understand it :<
<cole-h> fish has async building blocks?
<hyperfekt> cole-h: nope.
<hyperfekt> that is what's making the whole thing difficult
<qyliss> hyperfekt: there's a daemon you can use
<qyliss> I forget the same
<qyliss> /msg {^_^} ,locate libqmi-glib.pc
<hyperfekt> you can also install nix-index locally if you want an offline version c:
<cole-h> Or you can just install nix-index and use nix-locate... :P
<cole-h> hyperfekt++
<hyperfekt> "it has more fast" ++
<cole-h> libqmi.dev 621 r /nix/store/iyvb7b9m5r8z9r0fxl9la8072j2pjkf2-libqmi-1.24.6-dev/lib/pkgconfig/qmi-glib.pc
<cole-h> qyliss: ^
<cole-h> ",locate libqmi-glib.pc"
<cole-h> Wrong
<cole-h> ",locate qmi-glib.pc"
<cole-h> Right
<cole-h> (strip the lib lol)
<hyperfekt> cole-h: haha yeah i wasn't explaining the whole problem, i'm not just trying to do it async, but to update the prompt when watchman detects changes
<colemickens> gitstatus/gitstatusd is the one. I just adopted romkatv's zsh4humans and powerlevel10k and now remembering that I used gitstatus from them as well. not sure if its still needed, maybe zsh4humans does git async for me as I haven't noticed issues
<colemickens> of course, now I have to hoist zsh4humans into home-manager, its pretty minimal at least
<cole-h> hyperfekt: Ah, OK.
<cole-h> colemickens: That works -- but not for fish x)
<Irenes[m]> LOL
<Irenes[m]> yes
<Irenes[m]> at Google
<Irenes[m]> there is a joke that there are two solutions to any problem
<Irenes[m]> the one that is deprecated, and the one that isn't ready yet
<Irenes[m]> it's both hilarious and saddening that it's visible from outside the company
<tazjin> :p
<Irenes[m]> yeahhhhh. shouldn't be surprised. ah well :)
<hyperfekt> how thicc is your pipe? can you run scripts on uhura?
<hyperfekt> i keep coming back to my "filesystems are bad actually" take
<hyperfekt> nix but for everything :<
<cole-h> "Google didn't notice..." lol
<Irenes[m]> yeah I'm not sure I have any useful information to offer wrt the paths, other than yes, Google is made of people and those people are fallible and prone to bad habits and stuff
<cole-h> "9 doesn't come after 7"
<cole-h> Best quote of the stream
<FireFly> it's neat! I find it interesting
<cole-h> Boring is good
<klltkr> I know nothing about nix so seeing some of it is useful, even though it's mostly going over my head
<FireFly> I didn't watch last week, but it's plenty interesting to see others' workflows in general
<Irenes[m]> I concur. I didn't come to your stream expecting to be excited, I want to see your process.
<tazjin> Do you find that streaming makes it easier for you to stay focused? I've heard that as a side-effect from some people.
<klltkr> If anyone has recommendations for resources for bootstrapping nix knowledge, that would be handy for me
<tazjin> klltkr: for the language itself, might I plug - https://github.com/tazjin/nix-1p
<klltkr> tazjin, amazing, thank you
<cole-h> ^ Good resource.
<tazjin> qyliss, cool - makes sense
<cole-h> But really, the easiest way to learn is to dive right in and contribute
<cole-h> I started ~February I think and I've got 19 commits to my name in nixpkgs proper.
<cole-h> Are you talking about `niv`? Or something else?
<cole-h> Oh, OK
<cole-h> git-repo does show up in the search at least
<tazjin> depot_tools I think is what you mean
<cole-h> "Komando ne trovita"
<qyliss> jes!
<FireFly> heh
<cole-h> gtk_doc is an alias to gtk-doc
<tazjin> oh, nix edit fails in eshell because with-editor sets an EDITOR string that has quotes in it
<cole-h> Yak-shaving, are we? :P
<tazjin> M-x server-start and then EDITOR=emacsclient will work
<tazjin> but I'm gonna fix this in nix
<Cynthia> I heard that google has a big computer
<Irenes[m]> I don't know the answer to your gcc/clang wrapper question. Bazel discourages you from setting those things by hand at all.
<Irenes[m]> but Chromium isn't built with Bazel, of course.
<Irenes[m]> if I had to guess, they probably just use clang.
<Irenes[m]> lol okay yes that makes sense
<Irenes[m]> yeah don't expect consistency tbh
<cole-h> That issue is "Verified (closed)" on crbug
<tazjin> it is clang
<tazjin> gcc is also considered unsupported for chromium: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/clang.md
<tazjin> afaict, yes
<tazjin> fwiw, I'm losing the ability to focus on the stream slowly
<Irenes[m]> thanks so much for sharing this!
<hyperfekt> wow that was a lot more work than i thought it would be
<Irenes[m]> it looks very time consuming, I indeed hope you are able to get somebody to help with it
<Irenes[m]> I unfortunately didn't see any way to automate it since you were basically making a lot of judgement calls
<Irenes[m]> as to what happened upstream and what it means for you
<hyperfekt> you're really good at frontloading work,
<klltkr> Is there any restriction on the types of Wayland buffers with crosvm / virtio_wl / sommelier (i.e. SHM buffers / dmabufs)?
<Irenes[m]> I would love to help but I'm overcommitted already, and realistically I need to avoid promising things I can't deliver
<Irenes[m]> I had fun watching!
<klltkr> Awesome, thanks
<cole-h> Thanks again for the stream, it was fun to watch
<tazjin> thanks for the stream!
<klltkr> Yes, thank you!
<cole-h> (And s**tpost in IRC hehe)
<Irenes[m]> glad to hear that it helped you to do the stream :)
<klltkr> Cheerio!
<qyliss> Can somebody please confirm that the stream is indeed off?
<qyliss> Just to make sure I have my laptop screen back with nobody watching it :P
<cole-h> mpv isn't popping up, so I believe so
<qyliss> cool
<qyliss> thanks so much everybody
<hyperfekt> thanks for streaming c:
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