qyliss changed the topic of #spectrum to: A compartmentalized operating system | https://spectrum-os.org/ | Logs: https://logs.spectrum-os.org/spectrum/
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<FireFly> qyliss: hm, just so I'm understanding things correctly.. the 'spectrum-vm' script boots a single "compartment" VM, talking (via virtio_wl) to a wayland compositor running on my host machine?
<qyliss> Yeah
<FireFly> hm, I should figure out getting wayland & sway up and running in a separate virtual console
<qyliss> wlroots has an X11 backend
<qyliss> So you should be able to run sway as a window in your X11 session
<FireFly> oh neat
<FireFly> oh look at that, that seems to work
<qyliss> But also, wayland compositors aren't difficult to set up like an X server. You can probably switch to a VT, run "sway", and it'll probably just work.
<FireFly> oh yeah, that works too.. geez, I guess I just assumed things would be more complicated than they are
<FireFly> (...I should really get on with ditching X11)
<qyliss> totally understandable if you're coming from X11, which is vastly more complicated to get working
<MichaelRaskin> X11 hasn't really been complicated for years now.
<MichaelRaskin> Maybe even a decade and a half?
<MichaelRaskin> It's just that with X11 configurator output (… and Xorg includes a configurator, if you need it) is written to disk, and with Sway it is … somewhere in RAM so you cannot inspect it
<FireFly> whee, after some fiddling with getting a basic sway config working.. seems launching spectrum-vm from within sway works just fine \o/
<Shell> what's the command to start X11 with a window manager, compositor and some mechanism for starting programs inside it, without a small army of bash scripts involved?
<FireFly> neat. also, I think I should just flesh out this sway config and switch to it, since it seems to work similarly to how I want my tiling to work and seems flexible enough in its configuration
<MichaelRaskin> Shell: with Wayland standards of flexibility? startkde, and it is an implementation detail what's inside
<MichaelRaskin> I _prefer_ writing my own wrapper around all that (possibly a script in a language different from Bash), because the X way means I can have a WM that does not need to run in the same process as the compositor.
<qyliss> I'm going to reboot the server running spectrum-os.org to get it to pick up the additional memory it now has
<qyliss> Mailing lists etc, and also my IRC bouncer, will be offline hopefully only briefly, but possibly for longer if things don't come back up
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<qyliss> cool, that was more pleasant than I expected
<qyliss> Now people should be able to clone Nixpkgs to their heart's content
<qyliss> Looks like I should be able to comfortably handle at least 3 Nixpkgs clones now, and a fourth will still be fine, just start swapping a bit
<MichaelRaskin> Nice measure of server RAM: in Nixpkgs clones
<qyliss> One Nixpkgs clone takes about 600M at peak
<MichaelRaskin> #matrix counts RAM in 1000-member rooms, #spectrum in Nixpkgs clones
<FireFly> haha
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<qyliss> A good patch would be to add some mention of spectrum-vm to the developer manual
<Shell> qyliss: you should put a ratelimiter in front of the smart clone endpoint. "try again later". :p
<qyliss> Wouldn't need to explain every option, etc, since that's better done by --help, but an explanation of its purpose and why it's useful would be nice
<qyliss> Shell: I'm wondering if I can cache the compressed objects or something?
<qyliss> A bit weird it would need to do that per-clone
<qyliss> Obviously it would need to do that for every fetch since the negotiation will be different, but those should be ligther anyway
<Shell> qyliss: I imagine running git gc doesn't help much?
<qyliss> ooh good question
<MichaelRaskin> Intuitively, the description of repack sounds also relevant, but I do not like git enough to learn what exactly its non-essential commands do
<qyliss> Running git gc
<qyliss> Wow yeah now it doesn't use any memory at all
<qyliss> or not much, anyway :P
<qyliss> good thought Shell
<MichaelRaskin> A reboot wasted?
<qyliss> Having more memory is still good
<qyliss> We were running pretty much at capacity (including swap permanently full) before
<MichaelRaskin> Ah, argh
<qyliss> I wonder if I can configure a more frequent git gc
<MichaelRaskin> Manual page for git-gc says there are some ways to auto-launch it on various conditions
<MichaelRaskin> (configurable)
<qyliss> Suppose I might as well manually gc crosvm too while I'm here
<qyliss> not that it's anywhere near the same scale
<MichaelRaskin> Then create a cronjob?
<qyliss> I'll review the man page first
<qyliss> But I think what might work well is just a post-update hook that runs git gc
<qyliss> since Nixpkgs pushes don't really happen all that much
<Shell> qyliss: glad that helped :)
<FireFly> qyliss: yeah, I was thinking a "getting started" kind of section with a paragraph or two would be neat, I could write something up later.. was thinking yesterday that I should do so once I get things running and still have the "getting things setup" fresh in mind :)
<qyliss> Yeah that'd be awesome :)
<qyliss> fwiw, this VM stuff is just one component of Spectrum
<qyliss> (But it's the only one that's really there at the moment)
<FireFly> right, yeah
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<qyliss> Fixed a bug in spectrum-vm where custom commands longer than 57 characters wouldn't work
<qyliss> Also, spectrum-vm pro tip: your terminal is a serial console. Type "reboot" and hit enter to quit the VM.
<cole-h> Only about 12 hours too late lol
<cole-h> I was spamming C-c, C-k, C-\, everything, to try to exit it
<cole-h> :D
<qyliss> "poweroff" doesn't work, btw
<qyliss> crosvm will only terminate on a reboot
<qyliss> don't ask me why
<cole-h> wot
<cole-h> ????
<qyliss> that's just The Way It Is
<cole-h> Google? r u ok?
<qyliss> I assume it's intentional
<qyliss> but I don't know why
<qyliss> that should probably go in the crosvm section of the manual
<qyliss> wasn't obvious to me until i read the code either
<FireFly> yeah, that's.. not entirely obvious, heh
<MichaelRaskin> I mean, it's kind of natural for people remembering Windows 95
<MichaelRaskin> Reboot on x86 is an easy operation, powerdown is an ACPI horror
<Irenes[m]> ow :( true that
<Irenes[m]> agreed it should go in the manual
<qyliss> Could also just make poweroff a symlink to reboot
<qyliss> But it's probably not even obvious that you have a serial console, so should be in the manual anyway
<Irenes[m]> yeah
<qyliss> time for the server software update btw
<Irenes[m]> cool!
<qyliss> I'm trying to do this much more regularly so it's less annoying
<Irenes[m]> makes sense.
<qyliss> but things might go breifly down as always, hence the notice :)
<Irenes[m]> sure :)
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<qyliss> all clear :)
<Irenes[m]> nice
<MichaelRaskin> Just understood that I can lose my IRC chat ordering and mostly push the new order into muscle memory in around a day. Random colours (hash-based) for chat backgrounds? I never learnt to associate them with the actual chats. Dunno what this means for distinguishing windows in Spectrum
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